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 Post subject: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:59 am
Posts: 276
Location: UWO Law School
This was forwarded to me by one of western's current students. I am posting this here in the hopes that it helps someone.

Quote:
To All Law Students:

I have received several queries over the past two weeks from students who are concerned about the future of the Areas of Concentration programs at the Western Law. With this message of explanation, I am hoping to be able to answer many of your questions.

Over the past six years, the Faculty has operated four Areas of Concentration: Business, IPIT, Tax and Criminal Law. Over this past winter, a review process was initiated by myself and the Programs Committee to assess the future of the various AoCs. Given that the Programs Committee has long felt that a minimum of two full-time faculty members were required in order to create or maintain a viable AoC program, the Committee and I made the difficult decision to suspend the AoC programs in Criminal Law and Tax Law, beginning in the next academic year.

The decision was not taken lightly. The Faculty is proud of its many strengths, and we have been justifiably well-known for our traditional depth in tax law and criminal law. However, for the present moment, we do not have the faculty teaching complement to sustain the AoC in these two programs. As soon as our faculty numbers increased once again in these areas, we will carefully consider the feasibility of re-starting these AoCs.

Keep in mind several important things. First, the Faculty will continue to offer a rich variety of courses in tax law and criminal law. Anyone with an interest in these areas will still be able to obtain a high-quality legal education that will continue to be respected and accepted anywhere where it counts. Second, those students in second year who want to graduate in 2010 with an AoC in either of these areas will be able to. We will offer sufficient courses in 2009-10 to enable you to graduate with the designation. This includes those second year students who have not yet declared their desire to take one of the concentrations. And third, the Faculty is seriously looking at many of our other areas of strength to assess whether we will initiate new AoCs.

Some first year students will be disappointed that they will not have the opportunity to take an AoC in tax or criminal while they are studying at Western Law. I wish it was otherwise, but the Faculty cannot offer an AoC in these areas without the necessary full-time bench strength. We are in turbulent economic times, and that might restrict our ability to hire as many new faculty as we need and want over the next several years. However, rest assured that you will still be able to take a wide number of great courses in these areas at Western Law, and to compete on advantageous terms with law graduates from any other law school in the province and the country for high-quality jobs in these areas.

If you have any questions regarding the AoCs, please drop me a note and I will try to reply as completely and quickly as possible.

My best wishes for success in your upcoming exams and papers,

Professor Michael Lynk


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:23 am
Posts: 1220
Location: ON
gotta love finding this out AFTER accepting.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:53 am
Posts: 41
Damn mroyal.

You were wanting tax law given your accounting background too.

That sucks.

I'm sure there were still be plenty of tax law courses for you to take, as the email stated.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:39 am 
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Location: Osgoode
mroyal wrote:
gotta love finding this out AFTER accepting.

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:03 am 
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Posts: 53
wow...bummer


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:04 am 
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Posts: 114
mroyal wrote:
gotta love finding this out AFTER accepting.


Indeed. This is most glorious news.

Though I must admit, I was a bit hazy on what the point of the areas of concentration were in the first place. Do any other law schools have them? Are they cutting back on courses at all? If not, why would having these degree designations require additional staff?


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:15 am 
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Posts: 1220
Location: ON
rum_coke wrote:
mroyal wrote:
gotta love finding this out AFTER accepting.


Indeed. This is most glorious news.

Though I must admit, I was a bit hazy on what the point of the areas of concentration were in the first place. Do any other law schools have them? Are they cutting back on courses at all? If not, why would having these degree designations require additional staff?
yes, other schools have them, but not all. as you've pointed out, they'd have to be cutting back on courses if faculty resources are the constraint.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:26 pm
Posts: 114
mroyal wrote:
rum_coke wrote:
mroyal wrote:
gotta love finding this out AFTER accepting.


Indeed. This is most glorious news.

Though I must admit, I was a bit hazy on what the point of the areas of concentration were in the first place. Do any other law schools have them? Are they cutting back on courses at all? If not, why would having these degree designations require additional staff?
yes, other schools have them, but not all. as you've pointed out, they'd have to be cutting back on courses if faculty resources are the constraint.


Bah, you're probably right, this sucks. I wasn't planning on taking an AoC, but I do have a moderate interest in criminal law, so I'm going to be pretty disappointed if the courses they offer are significantly scaled back.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:31 pm 
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I don't think this is a big deal. My understanding from lawyer friends is that AoCs don't really mean a lot in the long run.

What they agree does matter in terms of developing a practice area is what you eventually article in. This experience matters more than courses. Relevant courses can help you land that articling spot (e.g. don't take tax electives if you want to practice family), but this doesn't have to be a formal AoC. Also many firms will rotate you during articles, so your AoC becomes even less relevant.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:10 pm 
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Posts: 1220
Location: ON
jdavis wrote:
I don't think this is a big deal. My understanding from lawyer friends is that AoCs don't really mean a lot in the long run.

What they agree does matter in terms of developing a practice area is what you eventually article in. This experience matters more than courses. Relevant courses can help you land that articling spot (e.g. don't take tax electives if you want to practice family), but this doesn't have to be a formal AoC. Also many firms will rotate you during articles, so your AoC becomes even less relevant.
these words don't provide much comfort. but anyway, if they are cutting the AofC, it only stands to reason that they would be cutting some of the classes required for that AofC, which means there would be less "relevant courses" to take.

in any event, i guess there's not much value in worrying about something we can't change.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:05 pm 
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Posts: 33
mroyal, I can definitely see why you'd be upset.

BUT - I must have 5 or 6 of my closest friends who just finished at UWO Law and they had all told me that the AoC's are great but not a necessity. Additionally, you can't really declare an AoC until mid-late Second Year which is after interviews anyways.

I know someone who finished the Tax AoC - said great things but also said it was no more of an advantage when looking for jobs, etc since everyone could take the AoC courses.

Hope that helps/makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:23 am
Posts: 1220
Location: ON
lawstudent_2009 wrote:
mroyal, I can definitely see why you'd be upset.

BUT - I must have 5 or 6 of my closest friends who just finished at UWO Law and they had all told me that the AoC's are great but not a necessity. Additionally, you can't really declare an AoC until mid-late Second Year which is after interviews anyways.

I know someone who finished the Tax AoC - said great things but also said it was no more of an advantage when looking for jobs, etc since everyone could take the AoC courses.

Hope that helps/makes sense.

thanks for your reply, but it's not necessarily about jobs; it's the possibility that they are going to do away with a lot of classes that people are interested in. also, it's annoying to hear about the decision after the apr 1 deadline.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 33
mroyal wrote:
lawstudent_2009 wrote:
mroyal, I can definitely see why you'd be upset.

BUT - I must have 5 or 6 of my closest friends who just finished at UWO Law and they had all told me that the AoC's are great but not a necessity. Additionally, you can't really declare an AoC until mid-late Second Year which is after interviews anyways.

I know someone who finished the Tax AoC - said great things but also said it was no more of an advantage when looking for jobs, etc since everyone could take the AoC courses.

Hope that helps/makes sense.

thanks for your reply, but it's not necessarily about jobs; it's the possibility that they are going to do away with a lot of classes that people are interested in. also, it's annoying to hear about the decision after the apr 1 deadline.


Absolutely 100% agree with your sentiments. They should not have done this after April 1st. I'd call them to see what their plans are for courses. My thoughts are that they simply don't have the faculty to run the AoC on top of their coursework and that most of the courses will remain.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:20 pm 
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Location: Osgoode
this kinda sounds like oz saying they're gonna start construction a week after the first round deadline


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:57 pm 
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Posts: 33
mroyal - I'm not familiar with your goals but having accounting background doesn't necessarily box you into the tax law route, I think. If you are so gunho about tax that you go down the long-term path with a firm's tax practice, they'll probably pay to send you to do the in-depth or Masters of Tax. Not the same thing as law courses I know, but you will get more opportunities.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:41 am 
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Location: ON
4getmenot wrote:
mroyal - I'm not familiar with your goals but having accounting background doesn't necessarily box you into the tax law route, I think. If you are so gunho about tax that you go down the long-term path with a firm's tax practice, they'll probably pay to send you to do the in-depth or Masters of Tax. Not the same thing as law courses I know, but you will get more opportunities.

it's not a matter of being "boxed in;" it's a desire to take tax classes. (sounds counter-intuitive to want to take tax :lol:) the masters of tax is a practitioners degree, but i suppose the llm in tax is a good option.

who knows. if they make decisions on the whim, maybe their AoCs will be back by second year!


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 Post subject: Re: Western Law Areas of Concentration
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:14 pm 
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Posts: 124
If you think hearing about this after accepting sucks, think of how the students finishing first-year with their eyes on the AoCs feel.

As far as I have been told, this shouldn't result in a great deal of courses being cut. They are able to bring in practicing lawyers to teach courses on a per-semester basis for these fields (which was occuring for at least many of the crim classes this year considering there's only 1 crim prof). The problem is that these per-semester appointments cannot substain an AoC, but it shouldn't effect individual classes.

The biggest loss is in credits (not course credits, though). For upper years (2&3), you're given a number of credits to "bid" on classes that you want to take. If a class was within your AoC, you automatically got in, you didn't have to waste credits. Now, students will have to expend credits on those courses.


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