Lawstudents.ca

Where did you see that stat? I find that almost impossible to believe.

It is impossible to believe. I'd guess its (a) misinterpreted, (b) American stat.

I recently noticed the table on page 10 of this LSUC report, which states that just 58% of June 2009 calls were employed when called to the bar. Now, I imagine some portion of them must be continuing their education. And some of them might find jobs very shortly after their call. But 58% still seems far lower than it should be. Any other ideas?

Well, on that same page, it says "This is a decrease of 8.1% since last year at this time which is likely due to the downturn in the economy in 2009."

I also choose to believe that the 16% of people who didn't respond to the survey were so snowed under with work at their firm that they just couldn't find the time to put pencil to paper.

that is pure gold! you need a law degree for that? That's what I'm doing wrong!

I think the 44% hire-back rate may have something to do with this. Overall, this is something for those looking to go into law school to consider. The bottom 5-15% of the class may never engage in the official articling process due to discouragement, 6% of those who enter the process do not obtain articles, and only 58-73% of those who complete articles get hired back right away after a large percentage of them work for only $2,500-3,500 a month for a year. Factor in the 7 years of schooling with its opportunity costs and potentially debt taken on as well and getting kicked to the curb is tough to take.

I'm in the not-hired-back position, due to a lack of work, and with the number of new calls on the market finding anything is proving very difficult even with a NY call and green card (not that it would be relevant to all employers, but at least I could offer the opportunity to expand into US immigration and securities work). I'm putting effort into drumming up my own work but the lack of years of call scares many clients away.

What Zangief's saying is true,what's the point of burning up 3-4 years of your life in Law School if your ultimate goal is to NOT PRACTICE LAW? THAT is stupid.

If you want to have knowledge in law for your own Business,you buy law books and read them.
Yes,you can touch highly respectable positions and become a very successful businessman if you go to Law School because of the knowledge you acquire,but seriously,if your ultimate goal is to open a Business,you seriously need to calm down,sit on a chair and think about going into a Business School.


That as dumb as going into a Medical School,burn 4 years on the M.D.,5 years of Residency,3 years of fellowship and 2 years of masters and then straight out you say "Well,i never planned to become a Doctor...so...."

I think the poster meant that it is stupid, not because of the cost, but because it jsut doesnt make sense! If you want to be a dentist, go to dental school. If you want to teach, teachers college. If you want to work in business, study busniess...if you want to be an architect, well go to law school of course.

the reason that the last option sounds stupid is because it is! I think Zangief was pointing out that if you know what you want to do and it isn't law...don't go to law school! It makes no sense.

Is it helpful to the OP in the sense that it gives her a direct path to become a painter by going to law school? nope. But it is helpful in giving them a wakeup call! If you dont want to be a lawyer why in the hell would you go to law school? Imagine the conversation: Hello son, what do you wnat to be when you grow up?
son: well I DONT want to be a doctor so thought I would go to medical school.

hmmmm...now THAT is monumentally stupid.

I find it ludicrous to suggest that one should not be able to educate oneself in the law just because one does not want to follow it up with a career in law. The law is such an integral part of nearly every segment of society, and is far more versatile and all-encompassing than a particular branch of medicine, for example dentistry.

I think it is a symptom of the particular historical context in which we find ourselves to approach something like education from such a narrow, careerist perspective. If law school was meant to serve, and subsume itself under, the interests of industry we might have allowed it to be taught in polytechnique institutes as opposed to universities. In fact, there is a reason why practicing lawyers no longer apprentice up-and-comers, as historically was the case. Not only might students of the law not want to associate themselves with the culture surrounding these bodies of lawyers, but might also philosophically disagree with the founding principles on which western legal systems were based.

And don't merely refer me to LLM programs. People who take issue with the current jurisprudential status-quo ought to be able to act on their beliefs as opposed to merely chirp about them in obscure legal journals. A professional degree empowers them in this respect, and it shouldn't be reserved for those people who uncritically imbibe a particular western liberal value system, or who display a certain 'character' as determined by a cohort of institutional legal incumbents.

That's true, it is unfair and silly to approach PROFESSIONAL SCHOOL from a careerist perspective. Come on now, what did you expect? WE all have (well most of us) pointless undergrad degrees in stuff just for the fun of it. If you disagree that it is pointless then wait a few years of work and see how you feel...can you say "thank you for calling the call centre"?

I didn't say you are "not able to" go get an applied degree in law as a route to not work as a lawyer, I said that it is a silly journey to undertake. Sure law is important...and it's really important to lawyers, but it doesn't touch on as much as you think it does. Let me tell you how many times someone asked me to use the focus, knowledge, and skills that would be learned in law school in the world of work over the last 10 years...I can think of 0 times. That's not to say that it won't help you...just that it isn't necessary and maybe not even desirable to most employers.

I like the way you write...it reminds me of an undergrad paper. Lots of big words that add nothing to your point but a feeling of erogance and lack of confidence in your position. If I'm wrong, as are all the others reading your post and shaking their heads, then why get so bent out of shape? Why use this occasion to pull out the thesaurus in an attempt to prove a point that in your mind doesn't need to be proven?

"uncritically imbibe a particular western liberal value system, or who display a certain 'character' as determined by a cohort of institutional legal incumbents" way more syllables that I can jam into my point...you win. Although you did cleverly ignore some of my more obvious points in your diatribe (see I used a big word when a smaller one would have done just fine).

I'm convinced...the best way to become a mechanic is to go to school to become a butcher. Likewise, if you want to work in business study botany and if you want to be a Spanish professor...why French should be your major. That's how people plan their careers in the Bizarro world by the way.

I don't think anyone suggested the OP should not be permitted to attend law school. They are just responding to the question "I am planning on studying A in order to pursue B, what do you think?" as clearly and honestly as they can. Frankly, I could see law as one of those academic pursuits that would be well-suited to a practical, hands-on trade school/polytechnique approach, but I can't really be definitive because I start 1L in a month. Ask me again in three years.

As for the empowerment you predict my shiny new professional degree will grant me to better take issue (as opposed to my current practice of much chirping) with the status quo and the jurisprudential fiddlywhozits, I am in awe... The best I had hoped for was to grant my friends and family the ability to back up a righteous "You'll be hearing from my LAWYER" with an actual real-life letter on intimidating letterhead.

The problem with your scenario is that people will always find a way to dismiss others' opinions. Like this:

"...and I would know, because I went to law school!"
"Really, you're a lawyer?"
"No. But I did go to law school. I just never went anywhere with it professionally. It's a long story. But I do know what I'm talking about."
"Sure you do."

Here is one word you can look up: connotation. I didn't use smaller words because they DON'T mean the same thing. I'm awfully sorry that you're not interested in nuanced language, but I'm afraid law school might not be the right choice for you if that's the case. It wasn't my intention to express a "feeling of erogance" (sic), but I happen to read enjoy reading literature. I am also not naiive enough to assume that contemporary American lingo is anymore straight forward than other forms of writing. It's unfortunate that you never found the time to expand your vocabulary, hopefully we can work on that during law school. For now, we can keep this site open: http://www.dictionary.com, in fact, I never read without one nearby.

As for your personal experience in never encountering a situation where your knowledge in law was helpful, well, thanks for the anecdote. But that's all it is, an anecdote, but I would surely hope that you are not seriously proposing that it does anything to buttress your argument?

And by the way, the term 'professional' degree has nothing to do with learning the law, it's merely a label slapped upon it by those who understand its function in a unidimensional way. Also, my post was in no way directed specifically to you, which is why I spoke in hypothetical terms, but whatever strokes your fancy.

oh brother...yawn...I've lost interest. You're right, no law school for me. That is what we were talking about right?

Have you read those posts about the loudmouth students who take up the time of the class and annoy everyone...until mid term when they see that they aren't as smart as they thought and are in fact *gasp* average?

OP here. I probably should have titled this, "Does anybody plan to not practice law at some point after graduation?" instead in order to avoid getting the arrogant, knee-jerk, "Why are you going to LS if you don't want to be a lawyer and you're just wasting your time since it's obvious to me you don't even want to get called or use your legal education anywhere despite your never saying this in any post" spiel.

As for that going to med school comparison, it's a bad comparison. The journey of a medical education is a helluva lot longer and more costly than a simple 3 years for a JD. Also, some students want to take their JDs to work, or to eventually segue into from law, into other positions (policy, etc.).

As for me, I'm already in law school. I went there because I was interested in being a lawyer (and still am). I'm just curious as to whether anyone else already in law school ever thinks of doing something other than law at some point. I'm not some 3rd year poli sci major asking if I should go to law school even though I don't like the law.

But if people are just going to give the same dumb answers loaded with assumptions, I'll stop reading this thread and go elsewhere.

Have you not noticed that every thread here is really just a repeat of 5 main topics, over and over and over? I've personally seen this topic in particular 3 times or more. If you want original and well thought out (aside from the occasional post...though not from me) you won't find it here...unless you ask an original question of course (and even then).

You got it.

And no, haven't noticed. But I'll check it out.

Don't bother, you'll only find the same things you found here.

Appropos, you made the right choice with McGill. Law is actually taught as though you're in a University.

Cranberry, re: flowery writing. Just wait until you are formally introduced to Lord Denning. Enjoy.

As for everyone else- who the hell cares the reasoning people want to go to law school? Everyone has their own reason and have demonstrated enough of it to be accepted. Whether it is a stepping stone to other work (such as running an NGO, government policy positions, running a production company), heading into legal academia (even in a cognate field, such as Anthropology), or to become a lawyer, EVERYONE involved is still interested in learning ABOUT law.

I came into law school bent on NOT practicing. Going through the courses opened me not to rule out working as a lawyer. Do I see myself doing it for the long term? No, but people change careers. The reality is many lawyers change into cognate fields where having a law degree and lawyer experience is highly valued.

My concern is that people here are ready to jump the gun and cast off and judge people purely based off the fact that other people have different visions than they do. That is scary stuff.

Agreed. Folks should be happy when people go to law school with no intention to practice law - less competition for jobs!

OfficerBookman,

Given your revised question, the answer is clearly yes. People do it all the time and will continue to do so. And, despite the beliefs of some arrogant and shortsighted individuals on this board, this does not mean that they are unable to succeed in the legal field.

Obtaining a professional degree should not prohibit you from exploring or pursuing other fields. If that was the case, as a CA, I'd feel obliged to be an accountant or auditor for the rest of my life -- thankfully, it's not.

I know of engineers that have become lawyers, lawyers that have become businesspeople, and engineers, lawyers, and doctors that have become politicians. All of them have gone on to become extremely successful.

Going to law school is quite different from going to dentistry school. Law is generally involved in many aspects of life, everyday. Dentistry is a very specific thing that involves only peoples' mouths, about twice per year.

Considering the costs of money and time, and considering the benefits of being recognized as a smart person and able to practice law, go to lawschool if you want to. Or not. Whatever.

Despite what people say there are certainly options with a JD that are not lawyer jobs.